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Post by Sweet on Jun 12, 2016 14:28:33 GMT
This is another tricky question in the fandom and I believe the answer vary depending on how one feels about Angel. Those who worship him will hate Wesley for his action while the others will possibly understand him and feel that he is forgivable. I surely don't worship Angel and I believe Wesley is forgivable because his motivation were not evil (and motivations are everything to me). Wesley's decision to take baby Connor and run away with him was to me sort of heroic. He was willing to sacrifice himself, abandoning everything he knew, his job, his friends, the woman he loved, knowing that maybe he would ever see them again, just to protect someone else's child. That's something noble imo.
BUT.
But at the same time I don't think he was doing the right thing. He was stupid and naive. I understand why he didn't say anything to Angel and to the others. Angel would have surely denied the possibility he would hurt his own son (even if it's exactly what he later did) and the others could have been endangered, but what was he thinking? Where was he going? How did he think he could raise that child, alone, with no money and no job? Furthermore how did he intend to protect him?? I think he should have looked for help and advise, not from his close friends but he could have called, I don't know, Giles. Buffy. Someone who knew about Angel and the danger he rapresented, someone who could help him protect Connor and maybe discover the truth behind all the lies he was told.
Where do you stand in this?
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Post by Illyria on Jun 12, 2016 22:20:50 GMT
I think he did the right thing, given what he knew at the time. I can't see him calling wither Buffy or Giles and telling them he was afraid that Angel was turning into Angelus. which would be his basic message. Kidnapping Connor was in part to make sure that Angel didn't harm his son, or lose his soul. I don't really see anybody but Cordy that he could confide in - she could have talked him down and made him wait until she got there. That's why she had to be completely unavailable - so that there was no one he could turn to.
I've always assumed WWP had some family money since he was able to afford to live pretty well without a job. Leather garb and a nice motorcycle aren't cheap. Since he was with Connor, getting into the car, he evidently intended to leave town. Even Angel understood his intent because trying to smother him with a pillow was the least effective way he could have tried to kill Wes. Breaking his neck would have been much quicker and more efficient.
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Post by Sweet on Jun 13, 2016 17:33:43 GMT
I can't see him calling wither Buffy or Giles and telling them he was afraid that Angel was turning into Angelus. which would be his basic message. ok, but why? because they didn't have a good relationship? because that aside Buffy, being the slayer and knowing Angel, was surely the best choice, if not the only one, to seek help to. While Giles could have helped him researching for a solution and Willow could have offered protection with magic. A mortal human running who knows where, without knowing exactly what was going to happen and how, wasn't a sound choice to protect Connor from a soulless vampire imo. That's why she had to be completely unavailable where was she btw? I've always assumed WWP had some family money yes, you are right Even Angel understood his intent because trying to smother him with a pillow was the least effective way he could have tried to kill Wes. Breaking his neck would have been much quicker and more efficient. uh, I've always thought that he tried to kill Wesley with a pillow because he didn't want to leave traces of his crime, he did not want others to know that he had killed Wesley. If he had killed him any other way, breaking his neck for example, everyone would have understood at once that Angel was responsible, while death by suffocation leaves no traces. Everyone would have deduced that he had died 'naturally', because of his wounds. I have no doubt that Angel really wanted Wesley dead. |
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Post by Illyria on Jun 14, 2016 1:47:06 GMT
ok, but why? because they didn't have a good relationship? because that aside Buffy, being the slayer and knowing Angel, was surely the best choice, if not the only one, to seek help to. While Giles could have helped him researching for a solution and Willow could have offered protection with magic. A mortal human running who knows where, without knowing exactly what was going to happen and how, wasn't a sound choice to protect Connor from a soulless vampire imo. Well, Buffy, Willow and Giles were dealing with Glory - so I doubt it would have done any good. He would have still had to make the choice that he made. Buffy had no idea Angel had a son - and either one of them would have tried to stake Angel if they thought he lost his soul. Remember, Wesley was doing this as much for Angel as for Connor - he didn't want Angel to have to remember and know that he killed his own baby. There really were no other resources to help him keep Connor and Angel safe and apart. Comshucking with Groo - and she didn't leave a phone number. Of course I am.  uh, I've always thought that he tried to kill Wesley with a pillow because he didn't want to leave traces of his crime, he did not want others to know that he had killed Wesley. If he had killed him any other way, breaking his neck for example, everyone would have understood at once that Angel was responsible, while death by suffocation leaves no traces. Everyone would have deduced that he had died 'naturally', because of his wounds. I have no doubt that Angel really wanted Wesley dead. It's not like he's in any danger regardless of how Wesley died - they can't imprison him, and they can't prove anything. Besides, if he was looking for privacy, screaming at the top of his lungs that he was going to kill Wesley was not a smart move. |
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Post by Sweet on Jun 14, 2016 8:25:49 GMT
Well, Buffy, Willow and Giles were dealing with Glory - so I doubt it would have done any good. He would have still had to make the choice that he made. Buffy had no idea Angel had a son - and either one of them would have tried to stake Angel if they thought he lost his soul. Remember, Wesley was doing this as much for Angel as for Connor - he didn't want Angel to have to remember and know that he killed his own baby. There really were no other resources to help him keep Connor and Angel safe and apart. I disagree. Firstly because whatever Buffy & co were doing in Sunnydale, Wesley didn't know (just like they didn't know about Connor) and anyway if he went to them they wouldn't have send him away because they were busy. Secondly, Buffy had had many reasons and opportunities to stake Angel in the past and she never did it, there is no reason why Wesley would believe that she would stake him if it really wasn't necessary, if it wasn't the last resort... and if it was.. what? you think he wouldn't have staked Angel himself to protect Connor? Because yes, I know he was doing it for Angel as well, but not at the cost of Connor's life. Thirdly, we don't know if and how going to Buffy would have solved the situation, but we do know that his choice to act alone didn't work. Yes, he did keep Connor and Angel apart, but I wouldn't say that he kept Connor safe. Buffy's help would have surely been better than no help at all. Of course I am.  don't get too used to it It's not like he's in any danger regardless of how Wesley died - they can't imprison him, and they can't prove anything. Besides, if he was looking for privacy, screaming at the top of his lungs that he was going to kill Wesley was not a smart move. I wasn't talking of danger or prison, I was talking of judgment. Angel cares about what others think of him (and when I say others I'm speaking of Cordelia, Fred and all those he personally knows). He wants them to look at him as a hero, as a champion, and his killing Wesley would have tainted his 'image' as such, that's why he didn't want to leave evidence. There is no other logical reason behind his choice of 'weapon', to say that he choose a pillow because he didn't really want to kill Wes makes no sense imo. He would have succeeded if he wasn't stopped. And he wasn't screaming at the top of his lungs, he merely raised his voice out of rage but as a matter of fact no one heard him, the nurses ran in the room because the monitor connected to Wesley gave the alarm |
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